New York Institute of Photography - Worth It?

[Big Bad John]

Living in Jackson, MS in the good old US-of-A is something akin to living in a photography void as far as competent training is concerned. I've been reading blogs, forums, and any other form of internet help I can find, but I long for some direct one-on-one help.

I found out very recently that Antonelli College offers an Associates Degree program in Photography so I went to check it out. It would cost approximately $40K USD to complete the degree. That seems exorbitant to me. I've also been looking at the NYIP correspondence program in Professional Photography which offers 30 lessons and assumes the prospective photography student is starting from scratch. While I've been doing photography for my company, I'm still very much a neophyte and have much to learn. I was wondering if anyone on here has taken this course and found it to be worthwhile. Comparatively, the cost is negligible.

I'm wanting to learn more so I can do part-time corporate work in my semi-retirement years and to supplement my projected meager retirement income....and yes, I've already heard the old joke:

What's the difference between a large pizza and a professional photographer?
A large pizza can feed a family of four.

Regards, BBJ.

[spyglass]

Good Morning Big Bad John,

I guess my question to you would be, are you looking to learn the basic skill set that will allow you to operate a camera and provide you with knowledge so you can confidently understanding the requirements and steps needed for any and all shots, or are you looking for an impressive piece of paper to hang on a wall that says you are a photographer. Remember what ever you pay for education has to be pay for by pure profit. I can not imagine how many photo sessions you would have to pull off to pay off $40K

I would suggest that you consider some night courses at a local college. You will generally find an instructor who is passionate about photography and is willing to take a bright and interested student under his wing. You will often learn more from an instructors insights and experience than you will from any book or course outline. At the end of the day no one is impressed with a piece of paper that says you are something. They are impressed by results. If you put a decent web site and portfolio together you can show your potential clients what you can deliver. Word of mouth, and a few well placed Ads can develop a nice clientele.

Spyglass

[Mike Pearson]

Hi Big Bad John - some sound advice from Spyglass 

Mike

[Ron Kruger]

Beyond what Spy said, I would suggest you serve as an assistant to an established pro who does the type of corporate work you what to pursue. Skip the 40K worth of theory and out dated information, and learn what you need to know from a practical sense from someone who actually does it. If I could even consider 40K for a course, I would invest instead in a 645D or large format camera with resolution large enough for billboards.
I realize I often take a lot for granted that I've learned during the past decades--but, man, it's just photography--and I doubt such a diploma would carry any weight in the real world.
The majority of success with professional photography is marketing. If you already have the contacts, you're way ahead of someone with a 40K diploma.

[tcom]

Hi Big Bad John

You do already have quite some input here.

It is difficult to give an answer here, not knowing where you think you have a lack of knowledge in photography.

The technical part of the photography is not that difficult. Nowadays, the cameras do make it pretty easy to get technically correct photos. While some courses might help, you might as well use your camera as often as possible and try to take a given subject in different modes and experiment. What happens in Program Mode, what happens in Aperture Priority,... what happens if you open/close the aperture. It is not so difficult to achieve a technically correct photo, ie. correctly exposed.

But then, a correctly exposed photo does not necessarily give an appealing result. There are a series of composition guidelines on how to frame the capture, one has to learn and use them, as well as knowing when not to apply them. To progress in this topic, photo classes should be effective, but going out, experimenting with the camera and a self critique eye can help to progress, there are also forums where you can post your photos and ask for critics.

But, having a diploma or not does, as Ron says, not play that an important role. Much more important is to have the right contacts and your own photos acting as business cards/portoflio to show what you are able to do.

I tried to have a critical eye on my own work and the critics received on various forums or comments on my photo galleries on the internet helped me to progress, but it takes time. I do not have any single our of photography training nor any diploma related to photography. This does not refrain me from asking accredition to events/shows which lately do start to get accepted and I even receive now invitations to attend events...

[Big Bad John]

Thanks for the replies and insight. I guess I didn't make it too clear in my original post that the Antonelli College is the option that costs $40K, but the New York Institute of Photography (http://www.nyip.com) is something on the order of $898 if you pay it all up front, or $1,198 if you do the installment plan.

NYIP say that you will work with a real working photographer who serves as your student advisor, who will answer your questions by phone or email. You will be given assignments and the prints will be evaluated by your student advisor and feedback will be provided. I know it's not the same as working side-by-side with a professional photographer as an apprentice, but I just don't have the time for that since I typically work 60 hour weeks. I thought this might allow me to fill in the knowledge gaps and get something to hang on the wall at the end. NYIP says what all of you have said so far, it's your portfolio that gets the work, not the diploma or certificate. However, since I'm doing the work for the equipment company where I work, a certificate will get me a bump in pay and since I'm paying for all of my own equipment, that would be a nice bonus.

Thanks again for your advice and keep it coming...I've got a LOONNNGGGGG way to go. BBJ

[blackcloudbrew]

I understood your options. Practically speaking, I think it comes down to what may work best for you based on what's available locally (generally may be more preferable), like photo workshops from a local camera store or photo club/society. I have seen on-line tutorials from people like these:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/index.shtml

There are lots of really good books and I'm sure DVD's too.
I can recommend this book from this pro as a really good how to:
http://seanarbabi.com/book_exposure.html

I've also liked the Scott Kelby books.
http://www.kelbytraining....tal-photography-book.html

For that matter, Kelby offers lots of tutorials on many photography subjects. His Dtown TV is always nice to view even if they are more Canikon specific.
http://kelbytv.com/dtowntv/

Personally, dropping a grand from NYIP seems a bit much but, it may be the best for you given your time constraints etc. The thing I like about what you've said of the NYIP program is that you have someone to talk to. That's very important for obvious reasons.

The other thing is have you checked your locale for photo stores? Even some distance away? Most offer something training related.

I would ask that if you do go the NYIP route, your impressions of it, benifit, likes, dislikes would be quite interesting to me and no doubt others.

[shadeeg]

Loksado Fine Art Academy, Fepartemen of Photography...

[materialsguy]

Much depends upon where you are on the path, I am finding.  If you are comfortable enough with your gear and the process that you can forget about it (just like driving a car; you don't think about it any more) then you may benefit more by either one on one with a master photographer or by selectively picking various tutorials available for free or for nominal fees (setting aside the MFA University route).

Here is an example: I pulled out some very valuable gems from a 1 hour video from Moose Peterson on B&W shooting for Nik SilverEfex Pro, whereas the "Understanding Exposure" course from PPSOP (Byran Peterson) was really not worthwhile.  The reason is that I am past the point where I need instruction on f-stop, exposure, shutter speed, etc.  What I am trying to do now is refine my own style or "voice".  

There is a huge amount of extremely valuable information and technique available for the viewing (or the downloading) the web.  Nik Software for example,has material from top tier photographers like Moose Peterson, Rick Salmon, Vincent Versace and many others.  Many of these photographers also have their own websites with tutorials, tips, techniques which are well worth checking out.

FWIW.

Shaun M

[JIMBO]

Only you can decide if it is worth the dollars. Photography, like any other hobby or business has its average players, still making great money in some cases, your hobby guys who think they are good enough to make the next move up and fail most of the time and then the 2-3% that are really artists at their craft. [These are the ones we would love to be like] Its kind of like being a golfer and not understanding why I don't hit the ball like Tiger. Like anything in live the more you work at it and learn [practice, practice] the better one gets. Only a few of us will ever have what it takes to make it to the highest level at anything in life but man can the adventure of trying to get there being rewarding.

If your choice is to do this as a business, like a couple of others have said, its the marketing that you need to get good at and where one has to put the time in, [sometimes more time then pushing the shutter] that raises their game. For me, I am a hobby guy that wants to get better at something I truely enjoy never planning to ever be the small group that spent a life getting to where they are. I would need to live to be over 100 to get even close to the 2-3% and then would it really mean anything in the end.

To your question, again its down to what you feel makes sense to you. I am sure you will learn something from the coarse. Cheers JIMBO

[barondla]

  Check around and see if there are other choices. Some have already mentioned camera stores. Also check out night classes at Vo-tech and other schools. Even if your schools don't offfer adult personal enrichment classes they may start, if you ask. There are many accomplished photographers that can be lured into teaching. Photography classes are always popular. Local Career & Technology Center recently brought in a cinema photographer that owned his own video documentary company. He had just returned from doing a documentary in Cuba! He brought 50K$ cameras in for the students to see.

 To progress in photography one needs a solid foundation in the basics. Aperture, shutter speed, ISO, metering, flash, focus, etc. If you are already comfortable with these it is time to move on to the next level. Read everything you can. Shoot, shoot, shoot. Join a photo club. Join forums - like this great one. They can give you about as much feedback as a pro 100's of miles away.

 Recently met a young man who had just graduated from photography school. He was very sharp, and I never caught him in a technical mistake as we talked. Was surprised to find out he graduated from the Hallmark (yes the card company) School of Photography. Who knew they offered photo training? I sure didn't. He was one of the most technically sound photographers I have ever talked to. He had some very nice images too.

 If you want to be pro there is marketing involved and also some common sense. Only show your best work. Be creative, and always appear professional during a shoot.
good luck
barondla