flat or rounded images

[davidhampshire]

do some lenses or particular focal length lenses,  create a more 3-d effect ( though that's not the right term really )  than others?   i don't think it's aperture,  but more something to do with the lens?   probably another stupid question ?        dave

[spyglass]

David,

Wide angle lenses can over emphasis subjects or elements within a composition when they fall toward the minimum limit of focus of the lens. Because wide angle lens offer such great depths of field it is possible to also have the back ground in focus under theses conditions. It does give a sensation of space and it it easy for the mind to accept the suggested depth of composition giving a dimension feeling.

Here is an exaggerated example.










You can see it is not just about enlarging the forefront subject, it is dependent on the background being in focus to pull it off. It is not as effective in this example.





Spyglass

[Frogfish]

There is always great debate about whether this lens or that lens creates a '3D' effect, the effects can be objective but whether it was caused by the lens or a mixture of other factors is subjective.

My own thoughts on this are it's more to do with subject isolation, micro-contrast and ambient light, thereby isolating the subject from it's background/foreground by means of DoF, the quality of the bokeh and contrast. I'd say it is very difficult to create that effect using slower than f4 and preferably best with f2.8 or faster (or maybe some longer FL lens can achieve the same using slower apertures).

Supposedly some lenses are better at doing this than others and to a greater or lesser degree I'd go along with that. There is no doubt that many high quality lenses are capable of this effect, given the right conditions, but they can not create this effect at will.

Some of the lenses I've used that can give this effect are the Sigma 30/1.4, 43 Ltd/1.9, Voigtlander 50/1.8 and the Contax Zeiss 85/1.4 (do you see the recurring factor here) ?  Though I've also seen occasional shots from f2.8 lenses that also have that 3D Wow.

I was going to post some examples here but SmugMug is playing up so I'll revisit later !

[davidhampshire]

thanks spyglass and frogfish,   is it the f setting then,   as much as a particular lens?      seems like  if i use ,  say around an f2 or so setting , though,   all i keep getting is a little 1/4 inch band of stuff basically in focus,  ( which is what the chart kinda says i'll get )      not sure how you got that cup and room all in focus like that,  spyglass,   k35mm f3.5 seems to me to have a natural  'depth'  to it,    but haven't really studied which apertures give me that,    and i'm also discovering bokeh,  of certain lenses,   too.    oh man,  there is so much to fit into my brain,   it won't all stick in there  ..     thanks,   i gotta play around with this a bit.    dave

[Ron Kruger]

Years ago I was friends with a guy who got a lot of pics published in Nat Geo, which pretty much was the standard for 3D-like WOW pictures, and he shared with me the secret: fill-flash, back then called flash-fill. Back then, it was a complicated proceedure, with no instant review to check results, and I never really mastered it (just got lucky sometimes). Today, it's pretty much automatic--still not simple--but fairly easy to accomplish in AV mode at the middle f-stops and the right ambiant light. I'm not talking about filling in shadows under baseball caps in bright, overhead light, but punching the colors, contrast and detail of a foreground object in lower light situations. One of the keys is to set the shoot up so that none of the flash lighting falls on any background object, just the foreground object. This is the same thing I do in the extreme (f22) for macro to create what I call black bokeh.

[davidhampshire]

thanks ron,   i'll see if i can experiment with the fill flash a bit;      i did a little today,  but just got images that were like 'flash' photos,  not natural looking at all,   is there a way to lower the intensity of the flash on the k-5 ?     or ?    dave

[Ron Kruger]

I use a hotshoe flash (most often as a slave), and sometimes I will adjust the output on it, but most of the time I simply stop down in AV mode until I get the desired effect. You're stuck with the output and direction of the pop-up flash, but you can achieve a similar effect. Near sunset, when the light is beginning to fade, have someone stand about 8 or 10 feet from a 50mm or so lens. Take a shot at f-8, another at f-11 and another at 14, then compare.

[Frogfish]

You're stuck with the output and direction of the pop-up flash ......

Except if you use a diffuser / snoot (macro) on it

I have a little cloth diffuser I always carry so if I have to use flash, and don't have a flash with me, the diffuser does a great job of softening and dispersing the output from the pop-up (and of course you can always reduce the output via the in-camera pop-up flash controller too).

[davidhampshire]

thanks ron,    i'll keep working at it.   will try the different apertures;         and frogfish,   what is the in camera flash controller?   in the custom menu?   couldn't find that setting when i was looking the other day.

thanks,
dave

[davidhampshire]

spyglass,   what did you use for lighting in that white cup photo?     mind me asking?     dave

[Frogfish]

  and frogfish, what is the in camera flash controller?   in the custom menu? couldn't find that setting when i was looking the other day.

thanks,
dave

It's the 4 directional 'wheel' on the lower right of the K5/K7 rear. Push the flash symbol and up comes a menu ... use the top rear wheel to increase or decrease the strength of the pop-up flash.

[davidhampshire]

ok,   thank you,   frogfish,    i see that button now.     ( i think i may have gotten a bad vibe about using flash,   according to you guys on here i better re-evaluate the role of flash--    just don't want that ' flash snapshot '  look to my images--    )    lot to learn.  dave

[Pacerr]

. . .  just don't want that ' flash snapshot '  look to my images . . .

Make a fist-sized pocket with a Kleenex and tape it to the flash as a diffuser. Cheap method of experimentation and about as effective as the commercial options.

The more "stand-off" you achieve from the front of the (any) flash, the more diffusion you get -- and the less exposure, too.

I've got an L-shaped piece of translucent plastic cut from a milk jug that I can tape to the camera flash head that gives good service. With a 4- to 5-inch square "window" of material positioned about 3-inches ahead of the flash head it not only diffuses the light source, but also overcomes most of the shadow caused by long lenses (i.e., the DA 16-45 at the wide extension).

DIY: Diffuser solution for pop-up flash

http://www.pentaxforums.c...olution-pop-up-flash.html

Look around the Articles Section there on PF for more ideas.

H2

[Ron Kruger]

Hank is a handy and inventive fellow. The problem with his milk jug, is it cuts the distance and strength of the flash to about half, which with the pop-up isn't very long or strong in the first place. If you are going to use flash very much, I suggest getting a hot-shoe flash, to be used either mounted or as a slave. Whatever flash you use, however, it needs a diffuser.

[Frogfish]

Here's the small diffuser I carry in my pocket, when I don't have a flash with me, and bring out when needed. It does an amazing job really.

I'm on the left BTW !