Will Pentax go for Full Frame DSLR?

[leto78]

Well, assuming that you have the probabilities right, it just shows that CCD is not the right tecnology for FF sensors. You must go for CMOS and canon was quite smart in investing their research on CMOS because in the end they will end up saving money.

[Bronek]

... only if it would mean higher yield. Otherwise this is not a reason to move to CMOS. But from what I heard (could be wrong) CMOS is more complex thus I do not think yield would be much higher - if I'm right, there is no way Canon would move (using own sensors) from 135 format to cropped medium format, but they do not care (not having any presence on MF market). But sincerly, I'm just a layman who keeps guestimating.

[PeteD]

Well, assuming that you have the probabilities right, it just shows that CCD is not the right tecnology for FF sensors. You must go for CMOS and canon was quite smart in investing their research on CMOS because in the end they will end up saving money.

The 39MP Phase One digital backs for the Hasselblad cameras are CCD so I think you are off the mark a little.

http://www.phaseone.com/upload/p_45_us.pdf

[ecube]

Just in other website, majority seem to confine their thinking inside the box!

Tcom said
"I think Pentax developed too many DA lenses now to switch soon to FF. My guess is that Pentax will stay for quite a while with the APS-C sensor for amature and semi-pro DSLRs and will have the MF for the pros."

Unless Pentax emulate Hasselblad (only one platform),  they will leverage their knowledge from developing the DA lenses and K10D to develop another product line for their intended market segment.  Another option is to sell the K10D body and system technology, most likely, to Samsung.

Perhaps Pentax will partner with Bronica and / or Mamiya to develop or improve the 645 format.

I would not be surprise to see modular design that would be an all-in-one camera system.

[manual_focus]

Not sure I see the sensor technology allowing for a modular design.  In an interview with the lead Pentax design engineer for the K10D, he described the process of bring the new sensor to market.  In essence they are given a chip and have to through trial and error determine what it takes to produce an acceptable image. This was the single largest cost for the camera. They spent a lot of time just working out the shielding needed for the SR not to increase noise to the image.

It means each sensor has a large initial cost, and therefore has to pay for itself through a certain number of camera sales.  All the work they did on the Sony 6MP sensor did not give them that much start on the 10MP Sony sensor.  Pentax probably can't afford to bring that many sensors to the market.

The reason for the 645 is that was where Pentax had a "pro" presence, and similiar to their entry into dSLR, there is a lot of glass out there which won't be worth much without a digital body.

From what others have said, the money to be made in dSLRs are in the lenses not the camera.  Its probably why cost for a camera body is the same everywhere, but cost for lenses vary by quite a bit.  If you want to sell lenses you have to have a camera to attach it to.

Pentax is in the process of stopping production of their FA lenses, (except for Limiteds) over the next year.  This is why I don't see them coming out with a 36x24mm sensor anytime soon.  No lenses and not that much of image quality improvement.  (this is discussed frequently in the Canon forums).

Perhaps Pentax will partner with Bronica and / or Mamiya to develop or improve the 645 format.

I would not be surprised to see modular design that would be an all-in-one camera system.

Not sure there is enough of Bronica and/or Mamiya left for a partnering.  It would require joint development of a camera which each would put their own lens mount on.  At this time in the 645 development cycle that option seems remote.

I could see a joint development with Samsung in the future if Samsung wanted to use the K mount for their lenses, and it was a Samsung sensor.  Not likely in the near term, but who knows.

[Bronek]

I do not see any point of such partnership - Pentax has some presence in MF sector (6x7 and 645) thus does not need to develop a new system.

[leto78]

... only if it would mean higher yield. Otherwise this is not a reason to move to CMOS. But from what I heard (could be wrong) CMOS is more complex thus I do not think yield would be much higher - if I'm right, there is no way Canon would move (using own sensors) from 135 format to cropped medium format, but they do not care (not having any presence on MF market). But sincerly, I'm just a layman who keeps guestimating.

The CMOS technology is cheaper than CCD. The MF digital backs can be CCD because they are not designed for the mass market, therefore it is cheaper to use a simpler technology even though it has higher production costs.

I don't expect FF sensors for the mass market, especially based on CCD.
Since Pentax cannot get their hands on CMOS sensors, no one expect canon will have a FF sensor.
Maybe Nikon with develop a FF sensor due to all the pressure from the pro-photographers, but not Pentax

[PeteD]

I wonder if this is why they have an alliance with Samsung? 

[Bronek]

Since Pentax cannot get their hands on CMOS sensors, no one expect canon will have a FF sensor.

I think that Samsung already have small CMOS sensors.

[PeteD]

They are also one of the few manufacturers doing LCD panels, they certainly have the technology and the size.

[benjikan]

The CMOS technology is cheaper than CCD. The MF digital backs can be CCD because they are not designed for the mass market, therefore it is cheaper to use a simpler technology even though it has higher production costs.

I don't expect FF sensors for the mass market, especially based on CCD.
Since Pentax cannot get their hands on CMOS sensors, no one expect canon will have a FF sensor.
Maybe Nikon with develop a FF sensor due to all the pressure from the pro-photographers, but not Pentax

I am not sure that Pentax would not consider a FF DSLR solution.  I believe that one of the reasons they associated with Samsung had to do with Samsungs expertise in exactly that area of concern.  Pentax has already set up a collaboration with Kodak for their 645D.  This relationship may open up the door to future developments...

We shall see.  I do think that the options presented to Pentax in Sony,Samsung and Kodak sensors give them quite a bit of potential latitude.

[leto78]

Well... if Pentax goes full frame, there would be almost no lenses to support it.
They have a bunch of old film lenses that are really good but you can only find it 2nd hand.

Pentax could use auto-crop to support DA lenses but they are missing a full range top grade lenses required by FF users.

I someone has access to sensor related patents... they could see if there is another FF sensor coming out soon.

[ImTheKMan]

I don't think this will happen in the near future...not within 2007 for "sure"...

Pentax is quite keen in producing DA lenses now...so I think they will stick to APS-C sensor for a long. I don't really want a FF sensor, but more keen in having a solid metal built DSLR with great image quality at high ISO (envy Canon EOS 5D photo quality).

What is your source?  Do you know someone in Pentax new product development.  Thanks for your response.

[manual_focus]

What is your source?  Do you know someone in Pentax new product development.  Thanks for your response.

If you take a look at the Pentax Lens Development Roadmap:
http://pentaxworld.com/fo...ic=413.0;attach=707;image

you'll notice that all the latest and upcoming lenses are DA, including the replacements for the soon to be stopped, FA 35mm and 50mm.  Pentax has stated for over a year now that they are going to stick with APS-C sensor.   Similar to Nikon.  Neither will totally rule out 36x24mm, but it is not in the cards over the next several years.