Thinking of getting a Pentax, couple questions

[Balog]

I'm finally getting a dslr, and I must say the choices are a bit overwhelming. I've borrowed and used a Nikon D3000 and Canon EOS Rebel Xsi from friends, and I enjoyed both of them. However, there are a couple things that are drawing me towards Pentax. However, I'm still not there all the way so I thought I'd turn to you all for some advice.

Pros:

Sealed body: I live in WA state, and while I'd never take a camera out in the driving rain a little mist here and there is the price for being able to shoot more than two months a year.

In body stabilization: being able to use old glass and not having to pay for stabilization with every lens is a big plus for me.

Cons:

Less common: budget dictates I'm buying used (yay Craig's List!) and there are about 10 Canon/Nikon bodies I see locally for every Pentax.

In body stabilization less effective than advertised: I don't know this is necessarily true, but the reviews I'm reading seem to say it doesn't fulfill the marketing hype. Any thoughts?


So I'm torn. Right now on my local CL there's only one active, newer Pentax, a K10D. It comes with the original manual, battery, charger etc as well as Pentax k10d body with Pentax 18-55mm and Tamron 28-200mm lens and some CF cards for $450. However, this little note gives me pause.
Please note: the AE-L button has never worked but I never got it fixed because I've never needed it and priced this package accordingly. Everything else works great.


Is that button not working a known issue with this model? Would it be expensive to get repaired? Are Pentax more difficult to have serviced than a Canon/Nikon?

Ok, so lots of questions and doubts. It's a pretty significant investment for me, and I want a reliable system I can grow with for years. If I need to save up more than my current ~$500 budget to get a higher end model I'm ok with that.


Edit: changed title to be more accurate as the discussion progressed.

[blackcloudbrew]

If you value a used k10d at $300, the kit lens is worth about $50, and the best price I can find on the Tamron is about $115 so $450 is in the ball park the set. I'd want to know the number of shutter actuations though. The camera is rated for at least 100,000 so use that as a guide. I've had mine for 2 1/2 years and am about 8000, keeping in mind that I also have 2 other Pentax DSLRs.

The k10d was a revolution when it came out and it's still my favorite. It's getting a bit long in the tooth now compared to the k20, or k7, and even the k-x. I know nothing about the Tammy lens - it just average I'd expect. The Pentax kit lens (18-55) is one of the best kit lenses out there but it's still a kit lens. I am troubled about the AE-L button problem. It's apt to be a $150+ repair job if you get it fixed. I don't know about repair for the canikons but PentaxUSA takes about a month or so to turn around a repair. I've not read of this problem before and it's clearly not one of the 'known' problems. Is it (AE-L button) critical? Not early on but the more you learn about your camera you will find that you will need it. I'd shop around for a fully working camera. OTOH, you might look at a k-x kit, it's not weather sealed but it definitely has better performance than the k10. I find it odd that you say that the camera comes with CF cards - the Pentax system only uses SD or SDHC cards. Might be a typo if not CF's are useless for a Pentax.

Personally, I'd keep shopping. There is nothing wrong with the k10d but if you could get a k20d used. You could go shopping for some good used lenses and have a lot of fun learning.

Again a new k-x with say the 18-55WR and say the 50-200WR lens that would be a great starter system. Yes it's apt to be a bit more money.

Tim

[Balog]

Thanks for the quick reply.

Totally my mistake in saying CF, was typing whilst pretending to pay attention to one of my boss's rambling and rather pointless stories.

I appreciate the advice, and I think I'll heed it. Is there a list of which bodies are sealed to be weather resistant? To me, in my situation, that seems a pretty significant advantage. But I'm very open to hearing if that feature is not as noteworthy as I imagine it to be.

[blackcloudbrew]

In the Pentax DSLR it's only the k10, k20, & k7 that are weather sealed. Keep in mind that there are other solutions for this. Like a rain hood for cameras. I've had mine camera out in the California winter and sea kayaking and never really worried. It's good that they are weather sealed but I seldom get them more than a little wet. You have a bit more rain that I so I understand your concern.

Tim

Edit: Honestly, while I like the fact that the cameras are weather sealed, I really haven't tried to rely on that fact. Because there are other ways to protect your camera, it's not critical if it is or isn't sealed. IMHO.

[spyglass]

Nice reply Blackcloudbrew.

Balog, on the AE-L button feature. I have never heard of a failure before. I would question the user to determine if he/she is up to speed with it's function and operation. You could go to the Pentax website and download the manual for the K10 and read up on the AE-L button feature. Then put a few questions to the owner of the camera. A lot of people I have talked to do not know or appreciate the function of the AE-L button. For me, as I use it a lot, I would not buy  the camera if the button truly had issues.

If possible meet with the seller and try the following steps on the camera yourself:

1) Set camera to "spot focus" - pick different sections of the subject each time you try this test (light area, dark area, mid tone area) for comparisons. 

2) Aim camera at a subject

3) Depress shutter button halfway to allow camera to focus

4) Depress AE-L button - camera should emit a beep and you should be able to see a star appear next to the shutter and aperture setting when looking through the viewfinder. The exposure should be locked for the duration of the exposure timer setting. (or as long as you maintain the shutter button half depressed).

Check

Meter operation time setting Pg 143 (I believe the factory default is 10sec)

AE-L focus lock setting Pg 135 (I believe factory default is for focus lock to be off)


At $450 a K10, kit lens, and a second lens with a bit of reach, is a great package and would get you out the door and shooting.

Good Luck,

Spyglass

[Balog]

In the Pentax DSLR it's only the k10, k20, & k7 that are weather sealed. Keep in mind that there are other solutions for this. Like a rain hood for cameras. I've had mine camera out in the California winter and sea kayaking and never really worried. It's good that they are weather sealed but I seldom get them more than a little wet. You have a bit more rain that I so I understand your concern.

Tim

Edit: Honestly, while I like the fact that the cameras are weather sealed, I really haven't tried to rely on that fact. Because there are other ways to protect your camera, it's not critical if it is or isn't sealed. IMHO.

Very interesting. I confess to my ignorance on the subject, and really appreciate the input. So if I'm reading this correctly, a light misting of a few errant rain drops do not pose a significant threat to the longevity of a camera? I'd not want to take it unprotected into a full on rain storm so perhaps the sealing is not as important as I had thought. Very interesting...

Spyglass: excellent reply, very helpful. Thank you.

What are the general price range I can expect for the different models used on the open market? I know it was mentioned that K10D's usually go for ~$300, what about K20D's and K-7's?

[blackcloudbrew]

Boy, I'm not sure I can really answer that but a quick look on ebay suggests to me that $300-450 for k10's, around $600 for k20's, and around $900 for k7's. +/- $100 I'd guess. Keep in mind that k10 and k20's are not being made anymore. Condition can make a lot of difference. You might check out prices on this site:

http://www.keh.com/

Look at used prices at B&H or Adorama as well.

Tim

On wet weather. I don't think that any camera (include lenses in that too) is in danger of a light mist. Don't forget weather sealing is more than just wetness, there is dust too to consider. Try shooting in Death Valley in a wind storm...

[fotaki]

Balog....and while you are browsing on the K10 and K20's, bear in mind that these cameras were a collaboration between Pentax and Samsung (Samsung produced their own versions, the GX-10 and GX-20).  Samsung provided much of the chip technology but apart from that (and a few cosmetic differences), both camera versions can be regarded as identical. Although I have heard rumours that Samsung imaging is slightly superior as they kept all the best sensor chips for their own production. 

I have both Samsung cameras and can vouch for their excellent performance. They will accept all lenses and most accessories that are Pentax specific. Not sure about the US market, but in the UK the Samsung cameras were always a little cheaper and even now, you will probably be able to pick up either version for a few $$ less than the Pentax. The only downside (?), you may get a few funny looks and sniggers from other photographers.     

[blackcloudbrew]

Good point John. Sorry we forget you Samsungians. We love you but we forget you too.

Tim

[spyglass]

We love you but we forget you too.
Tim

Earl this does not sound very sincere.....  LOL

[fotaki]

Earl this does not sound very sincere.....  LOL

Never mind, it's the photograph that counts. 

[snoid]

Don't forget. The K200 is also weather sealed.
You will also need to get weather sealed lenses to take advantage of this feature.

[blackcloudbrew]

 ???I was sincere.  Heck we let film shooters in here too ya know. It's a big camera bag. Room for all of whatever those guys are.

Earl

[calsan]

K10d is a very nice camera.  Certainly won't regret it, especially at second hand prices.

[Balog]

Hmmm, I now see the K-x with kit lens is available for $519 from Amazon. Tempting, even if it's not sealed...

Also, looking at older models I was reading a review of the K200D and saw this. Flash must be raised for AF assist (although AF works even in very low light)

Does this mean you cannot use the autofocus system with the flash turned off, or merely that one must have the flash thingy raised up for AF to work even if in a non-flash using mode?

Speaking of used, I found a K200D w/ kit lens on ebay for a great price, but it says the AF/MF switch is stuck on AF. Serious issue, or not something to worry about?